The Gay Marriage Thing
Is more than just about Equality
This is for the history books… written before the event and recorded outcome after the event down-the-track…
The following e-mail was posted to ‘Global Friends’ on the 6th October 2017 titled ‘The Gay Marriage Thing’…
On November 15, 2017, Australia will find out whether most Aussies stand for Equality or stand for Totalitarianism. Many people underestimate the seriousness of this freedom challenge.
If ‘No’ Vote wins, it is not just a Christian victory, it is also a Muslim victory. And a ‘No’ vote success means, we will never eliminate 18C anti-freedom of speech doctrine, and thus Islam will be empowered to expand its demanding dictatorship upon the Australian people. This demand by only 2.5% Muslims in Australia is already happening. And most of the Christians upset over the issue of ‘Gay Marriage’, with a rare few exceptions, loud in opposition against same-sex marriage, are quietly silent # in opposition against Islam. Does not make sense, does it? Where’s the sense in opposing equality and accepting expanding totalitarian demands? [# This is easy to prove.]
My good communication friend Dr. Elsa Schieder Canada published an Internet paper, link below, on July 15, 2015 on the subject of ‘Gay Marriage’. She wrote the paper in response to the legalization of ‘Same-Sex Marriage’ on June 26, 2015 in the United States of America. Many Christians were upset by the U.S. decision. Other Christians were comfortable with the decision. One Christian couple that goes to church regularly in U.S.A., has a daughter that married a woman. Even Christians disagree, over the ‘Yes’ versus ‘No’ Gay Marriage issue.
Dr. Elsa Scheider has three University degrees and in her interesting video ‘Brain-Wreck’ # she emphasized that degrees only mean that a person passed and is qualified in certain skills. But, this does not mean they are qualified in everything. Scheider has a Psychology degree. And she knows, by my past posts that I am critical of Psychologists. But she did not do, what many Christians have done to her and to me, spit the dummy and cut-off communication, because their belief system was criticised. Elsa, despite my criticism of Psychology, stayed friends with me, year after year, because we both oppose all forms of ‘Totalitarianism’ & we both fight to protect and preserve ‘Freedom & Equality’ values.
We originally connected years ago, because we both opposed the anti-freedom ‘Islamization of the West’. Over the years, we discussed many deep academic subjects and exchanged ideas. Not always agreeing, but always agreeing on the most important values… the protection and preservation of ‘Freedom & Equality’ as number one priority concerns.
# Read Ivarsson, Allan. FLAT EARTH: Blue Light Defiance ‘Brain Wreck’ (Kindle Locations 2914-2969). Blue Light Publications. Kindle Edition. Amazon.com
I recommend you take a few minutes, an easy read, and read Dr. Elsa Schieder’s remarks on ‘Gay Marriage’ challenges, in the link hereunder.
End of e-mail letter.
For the benefit of history, in the event the link vanishes from the website… I include hereafter extracts of Dr. Elsa Schieder’s opinion statement.
But first background… I wrote to Elsa on the 5th October 2017 and said…
I am receiving a lot of criticism against ‘Gay Marriage’ and my why I voted ‘Yes’ comments.
My next book will involve a very large section about this Gay Marriage opposition.
Do you have any thoughts, quotes, you would like to publish under your name in this book?
PS. I deliberately posted my support of ‘Gay Marriage’ to test people’s reaction.
Elsa replied on the 5th October 2017…
Hi Allan, the things that come to mind are stuff I’ve written and posted.
In general, I’m like you on this: what’s the fuss about? It’s not as if anyone is suggesting they enter a gay marriage?!?
Anyway, here’s stuff I’ve written and posted: Directly on gay marriage, on brain-wrecked Christians (more general) and here, something funny.
Congratulations on what you’re doing.
She sent me several links and from that information I extracted the following insight for history books… and I slipped in response comments inside her letter…
By Dr. Elsa Schieder Canada
Under her below ‘Freedom Think Tank’ header… Elsa wrote…
Anti-gay marriage argument: gay marriage destroys the family. So, let good Christians stand against gay and lesbian marriage. Question: does this make sense?
Today’s topic: Christians who claim that gay marriage will destroy the family.
It doesn’t make sense to me.
Why address this? I’ve heard this argument from a bunch of Christians very upset by the recent legalization of gay marriage in the States, and they’re people I agree with on many other issues.
So, why doesn’t it make sense to me?
I met a friend the other day. His daughter is getting married, he told me. Congratulations, I said. The less than usual thing: his daughter is marrying a woman. Now, my friend is a church-going Christian. I don’t know if his denomination accepts gays and lesbians fully, including as ministers. But I know he and his wife accept their daughter and her partner fully.
Allan Ivarsson comments… “Best wishes to this married Lesbian couple, may they enjoy a happy life together.”
The question: is such acceptance going to damage heterosexual families?
Let’s imagine that my friend’s daughter and her wife moved in across the street from, or even right beside some heterosexual couples. How might this destroy, or even in any way damage, the heterosexual couples? Would the heterosexual couples immediately get divorced? Would they start fighting or drinking or taking drugs?
I know things that damage marriage. My father’s father beat his wife and children. He also drank away most of the money, causing terrible financial hardship. The battering and drinking damaged the family, caused massive suffering.
It also damaged the family that no one came to help. My grandmother was sent back home by the village priest, when, one winter night, unable to endure any more, she ran out into the night and took shelter in a rough shack in a field.
A. I. comments… “The behaviour of that priest demanding in the name of religion that the woman, must return to her abusive husband is a disgrace, another reason why I have no respect for Roman Christianity and its dark history of bad behaviour.”
I don’t think it would have mattered in any way if there had been a dozen gay and lesbian married couples in the village.
Other things damage marriages. Lack of love. Disrespect. Not knowing how to be supportive. Lack of communication. Not valuing commitment. Infidelity. Drug abuse. A society which does not value commitment. A society which does not encourage respect, from very early on.
I could go on and on with the things that very clearly damage and destroy marriages.
Having gay and lesbian couples – unmarried and/or married – in the neighborhood is not a factor that comes to mind.
So why do so many people – with Christians being among the most vociferous – get so bothered about gay marriage?
The first thing that comes to mind: people first have a decision, and then find justifications. Lots of studies show this is the case.
In other words, people are against gay marriage – have somehow learned this is abhorrent or disgusting or evil – and then find something that sounds like a valid justification: horrors! Gay marriage will destroy the family!!!
If these people bothered to think about it, they would see that what they are saying is not an example of good clear logical critical thinking.
Instead, it seems to fit more as an example of BRAIN WRECK – when things inside the brain impede good clear logical critical thinking.
There’s another argument I have heard against gay marriage, and that it’s just one step down a dangerous slippery slope. I’ve had jokes come into my inbox with a judge faced with ever more ludicrous “couples”, with the last being something like a person and a chair, and in the end, he just gives up.
My counter-argument: we live on slippery slopes, and the just course of action is to evaluate every case on its merits.
A. I. comments… “Elsa is right, life is a slippery slope. How we deal with risks, reflects how wise or not we are.”
It would be fine if Christians against gay marriage just said, gay marriage is prohibited in my religious texts. In other words, “My God says so”. Then they could argue with other people, such as Christians who disagree about what is said in the texts, about what the religious texts say or don’t say. Thus, the basis of the objection to gay marriage would be clear.
In a society where many religions are accepted, we can’t use, “My God says so,” and expect that other people will see that as a justification for general social condemnation or approval.
I have also heard non-religious arguments against gay marriage – notably, marriage is meant for procreation. But so many people do all they can to prevent procreation, and no one demands that they divorce immediately. People also marry when the woman is well beyond reproductive age – and no one is outraged.
What are we dealing with? Once again, my experience is that I am facing emotional responses justified by “reasons” that don’t stand up to a close look. Another term for that is BRAIN WRECK.
I say, get upset about things that are clearly dangerous to marriage.
Many traditional Christians are extremely – and very vocally – upset about gay marriage being permitted. But only about 5% – or perhaps even only 2% – of the population is gay or lesbian, and those who will choose to marry are a minority of that.
But there is a 10-15% alcoholism rate in many Western countries. I say: focus on the damage caused by alcoholism, if you really care about things that destroy the family. As for disrespect, the level of disrespect is horrific. High school is described by many students as a zoo – and not as a good zoo!
By the way, I am for religions only marrying those they approve of marrying. So, some religions won’t marry divorced people. Some won’t marry people who don’t belong to the same religion. Quite a few won’t marry same-sex couples. I say, fine. In other words, if the argument is “My God says so.”
A. I. comments… “Agreed.”
There is religious freedom for other religions to have different standards, that’s fine. In fact, I believe there have been no coercive legal measures enacted, in Western countries anyway, to force all religions to marry divorced people or people with different religious beliefs. Likewise, it makes no sense to force religions to marry same-sex couples.
A. I. comments… “Agreed.”
On the other hand, I also see no valid reason to prohibit religions from marrying divorced people, people with different religious beliefs, or same-sex couples.
A. I. comments… “Agreed.”
I do hold that the only viable ethical position, re civil marriages, is that they need to be available to people of all sexual orientations. (This is outside the province of religion.)
A. I. comments… “Agreed.”
I’m also against destroying the livelihood of people who don’t want to bake wedding cakes or provide flowers for gay weddings. I think of conscientious objectors who will not serve in the army because of their convictions. I have always been in favor of their being allowed to follow their conscience without penalty. It doesn’t make sense, for something much smaller like refusing to bake a cake, to fine conscientious objectors $100,000.
A. I. comments… “Agreed.”
Why bother dealing with this? We hurt ourselves, and any cause, we care about if we don’t think well.
July 15, 2015
End of Elsa’s important concerned letter.
A. I. comments… Elsa’s last sentence conclusion is correct common sense. Problem is encouraging people to making the effort to think wiser openly, objectively outside the square of the square, free of inhibitions and fixed dogma. Sadly, too many people are trapped in an ocean of false knowledge beliefs and refuse to step outside their comfort zone fixed dogma belief system to think with courage in open mind. Elsa wrote other comments thereafter in other links, but we can’t record everything people said for and against same-sex marriage. But one silly argument is the exclamation, Sodom and Gomorrah! People who use this argument as a reason to oppose same-sex marriage are intellectually very immature in logic.
Allan Peter Ivarsson & Elsa Schieder ©
‘Blue Light Defiance’ Books… Published on Kindle & Paperback Amazon.com